Bethan Taylor-Swaine is the Feminist Sports Sociologist and wants to use ultra trail races as the starting point for conversations about a woman’s place in the world
Raz, some thoughts. Great topic. For context, I am a white middle aged middle class male, who is also an ultrarunner. My best running friend and training partner is a younger, Hispanic female. So, I get it. I volunteer every year at a race with a woman in leadership, one of my favorite races has a woman race director. I am all on board.
I am going to remark specifically on the gender question here.
Is this just a microcosm of greater society? One could argue your title might as well be "the power dynamics of politics", where even when women make it into power, they have to mimic the standard template of behavior. Masculine. Where I work, I had a woman boss. I cried once at work due to a panic attack. She got angry with me and told me to "Not show emotions at work!" If you see the irony of that..... she got ANGRY which of course is a perfectly acceptable emotion within a masculine dominated mind set.
A very common interpretation of "feminism" is "allowing" women to take on masculine roles, in other words: all genders having equal rights and opportunities, as long as they are the "acceptable" ones.
To me, this is the start of the issue. The expectation that we are "equal" pushes us to a single template mindset, the masculine type. You want to be equal? Then have "Grit" and determination, "overcome" those obstacles, be aggressive, "crush" that race. Why do women not come out and race? Maybe they don't want to feel like they have to be that way. Maybe the template of warrior doesn't fit.
If I could, I would turn this whole thing around. Why do we not value feminine qualities, regardless of which gender you happen to be? Why not "embrace" the effort, nurture the pain, welcome fatigue? Nope we battle, we fight. We don't cry, we get angry.
I answered your poll. I said No. This is a larger issue that reaches beyond Ultrarunning.
This is the nature of sport, masculine qualities. Is there room for feminine qualities? Absolutely. Instead of talking about gender, why are we not talking about gender qualities, regardless of which gender you identity with?
Male. Female. (gender)
Man. Woman. (Sex)
Masculine. Feminine. (qualities).
Until everyone understands, and values, ALL of these, and understands they can cross over, and even BLEND on a continuum, and depending on the situation, we are stuck with a mostly Male/Masculine world.
Lastly. The US recently had an opportunity to push change at the highest level. Why, in November, did so many women and people of every color vote against their own best interests? That was rhetorical. I wish I knew the answer to that one.
The entire subtext of this article is about the current state of DEI, and America/the world.
About the m/f values... I would say most are forced ideals from birth that are unnecessary for living a happy life. Maybe I should've expanded on the language point a little more, but using 'grit' and 'toughest' is a huge turnoff for me. I don't want to be around those people.
As Coach Bennett says: "This is about running. This is not about running."
Thanks Raz. I wish we could stop using DEI as a term and a thought process. I hate the label. It becomes a rallying point for opposition When something is innately understood within a culture, it doesn't need an initiative, it becomes part of how we think, without thinking about it.
You could’ve written my analysis! Nail on head as Raz has said! Sport is a microcosm of the wider state of the world, and it’s one where gender is most starkly represented because of the intense focus on physicality. The language used by the runners I interviewed, and in the media surrounding the sport, is hugely masculinised and plays in to the process you’re describing where feminism is understood as permitting women to adopt masculine roles - the conclusion of my thesis actually states that women who thrive in ultrarunning are there by permission of men, it is not liberation, even if it is sometimes presented as liberation.
Hey Bethan, 👏 I hope, one day, we don't have to talk about something like this, it just becomes as natural as breathing: Kindness, empathy are not weakness, bullying and domination are not strength. I am going over to your substack profile, I'd love to read your thesis.
I hope so too, it’s something that’s at the heart of my work. Currently there’s nothing of interest on my substack, but I do plan to launch one in a few months when my thesis is done! For the time being I share a lot on my Instagram @bethantaylorswaine.
I present as a white male but I am Puerto Rican. For years, I 'hid' that because of the conversations that were being had around me.
Today, I am taking my opportunity to move forward and bring people along because of how I look.
This also means that I recognize my privilege more today than I ever have and do not take it for granted because I know others are not given the same opportunities that I am.....based simply on how I look.
Imagine looking at Jasmin Paris hanging off the gate after loop 5 and thinking that’s not gritty or tough or strong. Words have meaning for a reason, and it’s a disservice to any finisher of any gender to not use those words to give them credit for their amazing achievements. And yes, mental fortitude and discipline and pushing oneself beyond what’s comfortable are things worth celebrating. Sorry, not gonna concede that.
Yeah, I found this one interesting as well. Mainly because I don't like that that language is 'reserved' for men, but I guess that's fully embedded in society, so this is kind of a solution? I will say that advertising running extreme distances as gritty is like advertising water as wet, in that nobody's arguing that bit.
Like I said in the piece, though: none of it's perfect, and everyone has a different idea about the best way forward, but as long as everybody is adding rather than subtracting, it'll probably be ok.
Bethan did say during our conversation, "I wish we could all agree more." Not to be haha
I totally see your point. Where Raz has said about language that emphasises toughness and grit he’s talking about how races are advertised, we know from a mass survey of U.K. women that an overt focus on toughness and how hard a race is in marketing is offputting and has an impact on number of race sign ups. I totally agree that these words are appropriate in reference to finishers! When I talk about them in my work it’s about recognising how they’re coded as masculine culturally and the potential impact of that, but it doesn’t negate their value in the moment or the individual circumstances because words and discourse can have multiple different meanings.
I appreciate you covering women in ultrarunning but TBH this article makes me roll my eyes a bit. I've been running ultras for 20 years. I've always found the sport as a whole and the events welcoming and supportive. A great deal has been done in the last 5 or so years to improve race coverage of top women; in the past, due to spotty race coverage (e.g. by the team of iRunFar, which does an admirable job but had limited people & resources), the top women who were farther back in the overall pack didn't get the same coverage as the top guys. That has really changed. You should've followed the coverage of Black Canyon 100K last weekend; women were every bit as celebrated as the top guys. There's been loads of talk and some study of why women are less represented at the hardest, longest ultras (e.g. Hardrock Hundred where only 21% of the applicants to the lottery were female) and a lot has to do with child care and timing pregnancy, but that also has improved since many sought-after ultras with lotteries now offer pregnancy deferrals. In other races where the lottery system has parity (High Lonesome 100 for example), women are filling half the spots. As for women being "better" at ultras, I'm not sure. Do you mean faster? A Courtney or Jasmin will occasionally win an ultra outright, but that's usually because the race is not the most competitive. At the uber-competitive field at Black Canyon last weekend, the top female champ finished 15th overall. At last year's Western States 100, the top female finished 13th overall. So men still have a physiological edge. So what, it is what it is, we can still race our best. I guess the point of my comment is I bristle at your sub-headline "Established leaders resist change"—not true for the majority of ultra race directors I know. They've done a lot to respond & support women. In our polarized world, ultramarathons are one of the safest, most supportive and friendly places to be, in my view, even if they're majority male. These races bring out the best in people, generally speaking. Women need more encouragement and role models to race trails and graduate to the ultra distance, and support at home to have time to train, and in general that's happening, albeit slowly.
Haha if you read beyond the subheading I actually write about how women are not equal to men in these races despite the headlines, and then write about how that is usually written in more depth beyond the headline 🤣
The rest... The numbers speak for themselves, and rolling one's eyes is exactly how the status quo is maintained, sadly. Having the conversation that I'm having in the interview, however, is how light is shone on issues, and minds are changed.
Also, sorry for another comment, but I have to ask, is Bethan Taylor-Swaine an ultrarunner? I cannot find her in either UltraSignup's database or UltraRunning magazine's runner search. I found a Bethan Taylor-Jones in Ultrasignup's database who has only two races to her name. I question someone making characterizations about a sport who has not experienced it firsthand.
Sadly I’ve not been able to participate in any ultras beyond The Speed Project (which is unscanctioned) for personal reasons. However, my observations are drawn from research conducted over the past seven years as part of my PhD at the University of London. As part of this I conducted hours long interviews with nearly 40 ultra-runners before conducting a critical analysis from a post-modern feminist perspective and using post-feminism as a critical sensibility. There’s really limited research in this field (although it’s growing which is exciting!) and my work has been well received within the academic community. I appreciate that my observations don’t necessarily chime with your experiences, that’s absolutely fine as there are often multiple discourses at play in the experience of sport. As Raz highlights in the article privilege is a huge part of what shapes our perspectives and experiences and while you have has the benefit of your experience it doesn’t mean others have and it does address why we see comparatively fewer women in the sport. As I said, this is an emerging area of research, and hopefully over the next few years my future work will show different outcomes. B x
Raz, some thoughts. Great topic. For context, I am a white middle aged middle class male, who is also an ultrarunner. My best running friend and training partner is a younger, Hispanic female. So, I get it. I volunteer every year at a race with a woman in leadership, one of my favorite races has a woman race director. I am all on board.
I am going to remark specifically on the gender question here.
Is this just a microcosm of greater society? One could argue your title might as well be "the power dynamics of politics", where even when women make it into power, they have to mimic the standard template of behavior. Masculine. Where I work, I had a woman boss. I cried once at work due to a panic attack. She got angry with me and told me to "Not show emotions at work!" If you see the irony of that..... she got ANGRY which of course is a perfectly acceptable emotion within a masculine dominated mind set.
A very common interpretation of "feminism" is "allowing" women to take on masculine roles, in other words: all genders having equal rights and opportunities, as long as they are the "acceptable" ones.
To me, this is the start of the issue. The expectation that we are "equal" pushes us to a single template mindset, the masculine type. You want to be equal? Then have "Grit" and determination, "overcome" those obstacles, be aggressive, "crush" that race. Why do women not come out and race? Maybe they don't want to feel like they have to be that way. Maybe the template of warrior doesn't fit.
If I could, I would turn this whole thing around. Why do we not value feminine qualities, regardless of which gender you happen to be? Why not "embrace" the effort, nurture the pain, welcome fatigue? Nope we battle, we fight. We don't cry, we get angry.
I answered your poll. I said No. This is a larger issue that reaches beyond Ultrarunning.
This is the nature of sport, masculine qualities. Is there room for feminine qualities? Absolutely. Instead of talking about gender, why are we not talking about gender qualities, regardless of which gender you identity with?
Male. Female. (gender)
Man. Woman. (Sex)
Masculine. Feminine. (qualities).
Until everyone understands, and values, ALL of these, and understands they can cross over, and even BLEND on a continuum, and depending on the situation, we are stuck with a mostly Male/Masculine world.
Lastly. The US recently had an opportunity to push change at the highest level. Why, in November, did so many women and people of every color vote against their own best interests? That was rhetorical. I wish I knew the answer to that one.
Nail on the head. Thank you.
The entire subtext of this article is about the current state of DEI, and America/the world.
About the m/f values... I would say most are forced ideals from birth that are unnecessary for living a happy life. Maybe I should've expanded on the language point a little more, but using 'grit' and 'toughest' is a huge turnoff for me. I don't want to be around those people.
As Coach Bennett says: "This is about running. This is not about running."
Thanks Raz. I wish we could stop using DEI as a term and a thought process. I hate the label. It becomes a rallying point for opposition When something is innately understood within a culture, it doesn't need an initiative, it becomes part of how we think, without thinking about it.
You could’ve written my analysis! Nail on head as Raz has said! Sport is a microcosm of the wider state of the world, and it’s one where gender is most starkly represented because of the intense focus on physicality. The language used by the runners I interviewed, and in the media surrounding the sport, is hugely masculinised and plays in to the process you’re describing where feminism is understood as permitting women to adopt masculine roles - the conclusion of my thesis actually states that women who thrive in ultrarunning are there by permission of men, it is not liberation, even if it is sometimes presented as liberation.
Hey Bethan, 👏 I hope, one day, we don't have to talk about something like this, it just becomes as natural as breathing: Kindness, empathy are not weakness, bullying and domination are not strength. I am going over to your substack profile, I'd love to read your thesis.
I hope so too, it’s something that’s at the heart of my work. Currently there’s nothing of interest on my substack, but I do plan to launch one in a few months when my thesis is done! For the time being I share a lot on my Instagram @bethantaylorswaine.
Recognizing privilege hit home for me.
I present as a white male but I am Puerto Rican. For years, I 'hid' that because of the conversations that were being had around me.
Today, I am taking my opportunity to move forward and bring people along because of how I look.
This also means that I recognize my privilege more today than I ever have and do not take it for granted because I know others are not given the same opportunities that I am.....based simply on how I look.
Imagine looking at Jasmin Paris hanging off the gate after loop 5 and thinking that’s not gritty or tough or strong. Words have meaning for a reason, and it’s a disservice to any finisher of any gender to not use those words to give them credit for their amazing achievements. And yes, mental fortitude and discipline and pushing oneself beyond what’s comfortable are things worth celebrating. Sorry, not gonna concede that.
Yeah, I found this one interesting as well. Mainly because I don't like that that language is 'reserved' for men, but I guess that's fully embedded in society, so this is kind of a solution? I will say that advertising running extreme distances as gritty is like advertising water as wet, in that nobody's arguing that bit.
Like I said in the piece, though: none of it's perfect, and everyone has a different idea about the best way forward, but as long as everybody is adding rather than subtracting, it'll probably be ok.
Bethan did say during our conversation, "I wish we could all agree more." Not to be haha
I totally see your point. Where Raz has said about language that emphasises toughness and grit he’s talking about how races are advertised, we know from a mass survey of U.K. women that an overt focus on toughness and how hard a race is in marketing is offputting and has an impact on number of race sign ups. I totally agree that these words are appropriate in reference to finishers! When I talk about them in my work it’s about recognising how they’re coded as masculine culturally and the potential impact of that, but it doesn’t negate their value in the moment or the individual circumstances because words and discourse can have multiple different meanings.
I appreciate you covering women in ultrarunning but TBH this article makes me roll my eyes a bit. I've been running ultras for 20 years. I've always found the sport as a whole and the events welcoming and supportive. A great deal has been done in the last 5 or so years to improve race coverage of top women; in the past, due to spotty race coverage (e.g. by the team of iRunFar, which does an admirable job but had limited people & resources), the top women who were farther back in the overall pack didn't get the same coverage as the top guys. That has really changed. You should've followed the coverage of Black Canyon 100K last weekend; women were every bit as celebrated as the top guys. There's been loads of talk and some study of why women are less represented at the hardest, longest ultras (e.g. Hardrock Hundred where only 21% of the applicants to the lottery were female) and a lot has to do with child care and timing pregnancy, but that also has improved since many sought-after ultras with lotteries now offer pregnancy deferrals. In other races where the lottery system has parity (High Lonesome 100 for example), women are filling half the spots. As for women being "better" at ultras, I'm not sure. Do you mean faster? A Courtney or Jasmin will occasionally win an ultra outright, but that's usually because the race is not the most competitive. At the uber-competitive field at Black Canyon last weekend, the top female champ finished 15th overall. At last year's Western States 100, the top female finished 13th overall. So men still have a physiological edge. So what, it is what it is, we can still race our best. I guess the point of my comment is I bristle at your sub-headline "Established leaders resist change"—not true for the majority of ultra race directors I know. They've done a lot to respond & support women. In our polarized world, ultramarathons are one of the safest, most supportive and friendly places to be, in my view, even if they're majority male. These races bring out the best in people, generally speaking. Women need more encouragement and role models to race trails and graduate to the ultra distance, and support at home to have time to train, and in general that's happening, albeit slowly.
Haha if you read beyond the subheading I actually write about how women are not equal to men in these races despite the headlines, and then write about how that is usually written in more depth beyond the headline 🤣
The rest... The numbers speak for themselves, and rolling one's eyes is exactly how the status quo is maintained, sadly. Having the conversation that I'm having in the interview, however, is how light is shone on issues, and minds are changed.
I respect your coverage and did read the whole piece. But the criticism felt heavy-handed and doesn't reflect my experience in the sport.
And I respect your decades in the sport, but there are other very valid and maybe more modern points of view to be heard.
Hey, you calling me old? 😂 fair enough
Also, sorry for another comment, but I have to ask, is Bethan Taylor-Swaine an ultrarunner? I cannot find her in either UltraSignup's database or UltraRunning magazine's runner search. I found a Bethan Taylor-Jones in Ultrasignup's database who has only two races to her name. I question someone making characterizations about a sport who has not experienced it firsthand.
Hi Sarah!
Sadly I’ve not been able to participate in any ultras beyond The Speed Project (which is unscanctioned) for personal reasons. However, my observations are drawn from research conducted over the past seven years as part of my PhD at the University of London. As part of this I conducted hours long interviews with nearly 40 ultra-runners before conducting a critical analysis from a post-modern feminist perspective and using post-feminism as a critical sensibility. There’s really limited research in this field (although it’s growing which is exciting!) and my work has been well received within the academic community. I appreciate that my observations don’t necessarily chime with your experiences, that’s absolutely fine as there are often multiple discourses at play in the experience of sport. As Raz highlights in the article privilege is a huge part of what shapes our perspectives and experiences and while you have has the benefit of your experience it doesn’t mean others have and it does address why we see comparatively fewer women in the sport. As I said, this is an emerging area of research, and hopefully over the next few years my future work will show different outcomes. B x