As usual, your ideas are thought provoking and extremely well expressed. As you can understand I think about "run culture" all the time. We use the phrase at LtW as a way to explain the types of stories we publish (about the spirit, history and reason behind running rather than 'how' to run or what to buy). But I appreciate that saying we publish stories that explore running culture could be misconstrued. We are not publishing stories just about a visible and noisy subsection of running that many people - inside and outside of brands - confuse for the culture. We publish stories about that lone runner on the trail, the octogenarian still competing in track meets, the person for whom running is a lifestyle or a means of maintaining their health (mental or physical) and those who have found community through running that they wouldn't have otherwise. These people are not cool but they are runners and fundamental to the culture. Those people were into running before we started LtW 11 years ago and they will still be there when we publish our 200th issue in decades' time. That is my definition of run culture. Simon.
This has been on my mind a lot. When Sid Baptista came to visit us at Mill City Running's BIPOC group run (yep, a running store community!), I asked him how he navigates the inherent tension between building community on the one hand, and PYNRS needing to sell to a target market (the people who are willing and able to pay for high-quality clothing) that puts the Majors (expensive, high-profile) on a pedestal. I feel like PYNRS solves for the profit vs community tension by explicitly being a community-owned brand! Then, at a Runlimited session during London Marathon week, Michelle Dzumbunu kind of built on your theme by acknowledging that even the 'stuff' around a weekly run crew community - the coffee, the train to get to the meetup, the time spent - can be financially inaccessible.
If we are running culture, we have the potential to shape the way we want it to be. I'd add we can and should make explicit what we want. Like, mutual aid is an explicit ethos. 'The front supports the back, the back supports the front' is an explicit ethos. 'This brand is owned by you' is an explicit ethos.
Yes, the co-op nature of PYNRS is the fix. It immediately makes it a community endeavor. And shouting it out loud is 100% the way of finding others who think like you - people you can build something great with!
I sometimes wonder if when we talk about «______ culture » if we are not just feeding the spectacle (see Guy Debord) instead of the actual thing. Talking about the culture, instead of the the thing that the culture is about, is performative. Which is maybe why I’ve been tuning out a lot of these conversations, and why your words were the first that resonated.
Which brings me to: what about runners who do not actively participate in the culture. Can you run without participating in the culture, and if so are you still part of the culture? My personal answer to this is: Of course, and yes, because the cultural components have permeated the sport so much at this point that it’s impossible not to.
Oh this is a fun one. Thanks. I think every person who experiences running is a participating part of the culture. Even non-runners.
The London Marathon was shown on BBC 1 while I was growing up. Free-to-air terrestrial television! I engaged with running culture as a kid just by watching 5mins of it. Memories are culture.
Same as when the LA Marathon ran past my first apartment in LA. I spent some time on the street even though I wasn't participating. Spectators are a part of the culture even if they have never run.
If we consider that runners see all the spectators, and know they're on TV, and that it adds to the theater in their heads, that's part of a shared run culture.
1000 words of truth. I love the brand callout on when relationships going from their use of run clubs as branding for themselves versus run clubs knowing their worth and it becoming a mutual growth opportunity.
Provide a single example from when you supported him that demonstrates he understood anything. I won’t even make you do it about the economy. Anything. Any fucking thing.
Huge fan of this one. As a captain on a club that tries to prioritize community over corporations, I often find it hard to balance our anti-capitalist founding principles with the need for resources to increase accessibility and meet our members' demands for merchandise and programming. We accept help from brands, always knowing they're getting something from it, but ideally we're always working with tech reps who themselves are about community and love of running more than the brand itself.
Thought-provoking post. I agree with many of your perspectives, but a few I differ on:
Personally, I don't think most runners choose their running apparel based on what "level" of community they want to be part of or the status they want to portray. Maybe some do. And perhaps more in trail running than road running. I tend to think most of us choose running apparel by fit and price point, but maybe that's just me. Am I old school now?
Regarding running stores leading group runs, they absolutely can cultivate community. Sure, there is a hope that runners will become customers, but the good running stores out there don't host group runs for that reason. They do it because they know they have a role to fill in their community — to support and often introduce runners to the sport by providing a hub where they can learn, connect, and train with others (I've worked at one of these stores that does this well).
Overall, while talking about run culture is interesting, I think we can start to overthink it if we're not careful. We're all engaging in the culture in the ways that fit best for us, and that's great. The more runners there are, the more ways the culture will expand.
Interesting you think trail running has more poseurs because I think it's the other way around ha.
With the running stores, it's not an absolute, of course. Nice if this is. I think older stores definitely acted as a community hub, but new ones? With a run club community now seemingly in every neighborhood? I'm not sure that's a requirement any more.
And I guess there's just enough over-thinking allowed for these two comments 🤪
Love your definition on Symbolic Culture and think that’s at the core of running culture. Running is both highly personal, ritualistic, and requires very little to get started (a pair of shoes and some track, road or treadmill) but also easily integrated as a shared community activity. I work @NYRR (we put on the NYC Marathon amongst 50+ weekly races) and the running boom is real! They say run clubs are the new night clubs ✨great post!
I think both types of culture are essential to running. I think poring over the metrics to get a sub-3hr marathon fits into material culture, for instance. It's a personal status indicator.
A lot of running just reflects broader society. It's more accepted now than it was 2yrs ago to tell your friends that you don't like night clubs. So you find another type of club.
The important part is that being part of a club is essential human nature. That community is inherently leftist-coded, which might be why we can be reluctant to accept how important material culture is.
Anyway! I could've written another 1000wds on this haha.
I hope you post a link to the article on the NYRR group chat! Get em all signed up haha
As usual, your ideas are thought provoking and extremely well expressed. As you can understand I think about "run culture" all the time. We use the phrase at LtW as a way to explain the types of stories we publish (about the spirit, history and reason behind running rather than 'how' to run or what to buy). But I appreciate that saying we publish stories that explore running culture could be misconstrued. We are not publishing stories just about a visible and noisy subsection of running that many people - inside and outside of brands - confuse for the culture. We publish stories about that lone runner on the trail, the octogenarian still competing in track meets, the person for whom running is a lifestyle or a means of maintaining their health (mental or physical) and those who have found community through running that they wouldn't have otherwise. These people are not cool but they are runners and fundamental to the culture. Those people were into running before we started LtW 11 years ago and they will still be there when we publish our 200th issue in decades' time. That is my definition of run culture. Simon.
And it's a correct and full definition, which a few of the louder voices do not have. The goal is for this to help them. Thanks, Simon.
Beyond just agreeing with all of this, I appreciate how succinct it is.
Vibey photos and the latest drop aren’t the core of running culture.
Could still be a 10-part podcast series. Or I'll leave it as a 6 minute read.
I do still like the vibey photos tho 🫠
This has been on my mind a lot. When Sid Baptista came to visit us at Mill City Running's BIPOC group run (yep, a running store community!), I asked him how he navigates the inherent tension between building community on the one hand, and PYNRS needing to sell to a target market (the people who are willing and able to pay for high-quality clothing) that puts the Majors (expensive, high-profile) on a pedestal. I feel like PYNRS solves for the profit vs community tension by explicitly being a community-owned brand! Then, at a Runlimited session during London Marathon week, Michelle Dzumbunu kind of built on your theme by acknowledging that even the 'stuff' around a weekly run crew community - the coffee, the train to get to the meetup, the time spent - can be financially inaccessible.
If we are running culture, we have the potential to shape the way we want it to be. I'd add we can and should make explicit what we want. Like, mutual aid is an explicit ethos. 'The front supports the back, the back supports the front' is an explicit ethos. 'This brand is owned by you' is an explicit ethos.
Yes, the co-op nature of PYNRS is the fix. It immediately makes it a community endeavor. And shouting it out loud is 100% the way of finding others who think like you - people you can build something great with!
I sometimes wonder if when we talk about «______ culture » if we are not just feeding the spectacle (see Guy Debord) instead of the actual thing. Talking about the culture, instead of the the thing that the culture is about, is performative. Which is maybe why I’ve been tuning out a lot of these conversations, and why your words were the first that resonated.
Which brings me to: what about runners who do not actively participate in the culture. Can you run without participating in the culture, and if so are you still part of the culture? My personal answer to this is: Of course, and yes, because the cultural components have permeated the sport so much at this point that it’s impossible not to.
Oh this is a fun one. Thanks. I think every person who experiences running is a participating part of the culture. Even non-runners.
The London Marathon was shown on BBC 1 while I was growing up. Free-to-air terrestrial television! I engaged with running culture as a kid just by watching 5mins of it. Memories are culture.
Same as when the LA Marathon ran past my first apartment in LA. I spent some time on the street even though I wasn't participating. Spectators are a part of the culture even if they have never run.
If we consider that runners see all the spectators, and know they're on TV, and that it adds to the theater in their heads, that's part of a shared run culture.
1000 words of truth. I love the brand callout on when relationships going from their use of run clubs as branding for themselves versus run clubs knowing their worth and it becoming a mutual growth opportunity.
Joe,
Provide a single example from when you supported him that demonstrates he understood anything. I won’t even make you do it about the economy. Anything. Any fucking thing.
Hi Hap. I think you posted this comment under the wrong article! I hope you find Joe!
Huge fan of this one. As a captain on a club that tries to prioritize community over corporations, I often find it hard to balance our anti-capitalist founding principles with the need for resources to increase accessibility and meet our members' demands for merchandise and programming. We accept help from brands, always knowing they're getting something from it, but ideally we're always working with tech reps who themselves are about community and love of running more than the brand itself.
Rule #1: know your worth
You're doing it just right
Thought-provoking post. I agree with many of your perspectives, but a few I differ on:
Personally, I don't think most runners choose their running apparel based on what "level" of community they want to be part of or the status they want to portray. Maybe some do. And perhaps more in trail running than road running. I tend to think most of us choose running apparel by fit and price point, but maybe that's just me. Am I old school now?
Regarding running stores leading group runs, they absolutely can cultivate community. Sure, there is a hope that runners will become customers, but the good running stores out there don't host group runs for that reason. They do it because they know they have a role to fill in their community — to support and often introduce runners to the sport by providing a hub where they can learn, connect, and train with others (I've worked at one of these stores that does this well).
Overall, while talking about run culture is interesting, I think we can start to overthink it if we're not careful. We're all engaging in the culture in the ways that fit best for us, and that's great. The more runners there are, the more ways the culture will expand.
Interesting you think trail running has more poseurs because I think it's the other way around ha.
With the running stores, it's not an absolute, of course. Nice if this is. I think older stores definitely acted as a community hub, but new ones? With a run club community now seemingly in every neighborhood? I'm not sure that's a requirement any more.
And I guess there's just enough over-thinking allowed for these two comments 🤪
Love your definition on Symbolic Culture and think that’s at the core of running culture. Running is both highly personal, ritualistic, and requires very little to get started (a pair of shoes and some track, road or treadmill) but also easily integrated as a shared community activity. I work @NYRR (we put on the NYC Marathon amongst 50+ weekly races) and the running boom is real! They say run clubs are the new night clubs ✨great post!
Thank you!
I think both types of culture are essential to running. I think poring over the metrics to get a sub-3hr marathon fits into material culture, for instance. It's a personal status indicator.
A lot of running just reflects broader society. It's more accepted now than it was 2yrs ago to tell your friends that you don't like night clubs. So you find another type of club.
The important part is that being part of a club is essential human nature. That community is inherently leftist-coded, which might be why we can be reluctant to accept how important material culture is.
Anyway! I could've written another 1000wds on this haha.
I hope you post a link to the article on the NYRR group chat! Get em all signed up haha
One of your best 🫡
Yes, yes, and yes. Plus a solid dose of Marx.
Karl actually borrowed a lot of these concepts and theories from his track star sister, Onya Marx.
Heard she ran the original TSP